Skip to main content

tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  July 30, 2014 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

4:00 pm
boarders. they're screening inbound and outbound passengers. the cdc is working with them to show people how to protect themselves from ebola. the cdc on a u.s. flight, flight crews considerable patched through to the cdc emergency center to put health officials on alert. wolf? >> pamela brown, thanks very much. that's it for me. the news continuing next on cnn. next, breaks news, thousands attacked in a shelter in gaza. plus why most israelis don't want the fighting to end. the largest ebola outbreak in history. two more americans are ill. good evening, everyone.
4:01 pm
out-front tonight, thousands attacked in gaza, the united states condemning the strike, but stopping short of placing blame on israel. the woes press secretary saying israel needs to live up to its own standards d. the united states went further, saying israeli artillery was responsible for the deaths in the shelter. the palestinian health mince tremendous says 20 were killed in the attack. our karl penhaul went to the school to see what happened. what did you see? >> reporter: erin, 3,000 people rub crammed into the school. it was before dawn. it was still dark, most of these people with sleeping. one shell cam through the roof, and another spashd through the latrines. one man who had been sleeping outside along with the other men
4:02 pm
said that when he woke up to the sound of is the explosion he looked around and saw el elderly men cut to shreds by the shrapnel. another lady said there was smoke everywhere. she poured water in her eyes just to get the bearing and she felt the shrapnel raining down. when we got there to take a look, the blood had already dried on the ground but we saw the holes, and the debris on the on the ground. people where bring up metal shards to say this is what exploded. this is where the explosions came. i know that you had investigated -- the investigators were there. they spent a lot of the morning there. we are very keen to find out who is to blame for this. i know my colleague has more on that later.
4:03 pm
there was also a very bloody footnote to this incident. a lot of these people are dirt poor families who had come to that school on the backs of donkey carts and brought their families in that way. there was another explosion outside the school that simply slayed the donkeys that were grazing and parked outside. then you think what will happen to these people after such a tragic incident. after all they had left that are homes because it had become a battlefield. now the shell had turned into a combat zone. the answer is tonight they will be sleeping back in that same school. there is nowhere else for them to run anymore. they simply have to bed down where they saw others die. >> that's just horrible to even contemplate, karl. yesterday you talked about how it was in the early morning in the dark, and it was so dark. you talked about the power plant. there was an explosion there. there were areas of gaza city
4:04 pm
completely and utterly dark. israel said today they would sent supplies, diesel for the power station, supplies. have you seen any of that? >> reporter: we haven't soon any of that, erin. in fact there are power lines that connect israel to gaza. that was what brings actually most of gaza's power in, but they were bombed in the first few days of this confrontation. as far as what the picture looks like in gaza city right now, you know, that's it. it's a black hole. you know, one or two lights pops on in windows. that coit to me that people have small personal generators, but gaza is without power. it may even be worse, because we heard more air strikes around the power plant. tonight it is the diesel fuel tanks that have been damaged there. even if new fuel does come in, there's nowhere to put itivities karl penhaul, thank you.
4:05 pm
as karl mentioned there is huge controversy who actually fired the missile into the school. richard roth reports from the u.n. >> reporter: it's the missiles of july in the gaza strip. israeli bottom bartments coming in, and hamas rocket fire going out. the united nations is caught in the crossfire, military and political. the latest attack this morning in the jabalia school shelter. it was the sixth time a u.n. school was hit with scores of casualties, according to the u.n. >> sometimes you run ute words. >> exasperated u.n. officials blame israel for the most recent carnage on their grounds in gaza, but the u.n. has a problem. missiles keep turning up within schools in gaza. three different u.n. schools that were supposed to be closed for the summer contained missiles, according to the u.n. in one school, a lone guard was left to look after the rockets. a day later, they disappeared.
4:06 pm
>> what is the link between increasingly missiles found in schools run by the u.n. and attacks on facilities by israel -- >> i think we need to be crystal clear here. the schools where rockets have been found have been schools that were abandoned by the u.n. due to the intensity of conflict in those areas. >> reporter: so the u.n. is saying no active shelters attacked by israel were found off rockets inside. israel insists that hamas fires rockets from civilian backed areas including u.n. buildings and israel has to fire back. the hiding of missiles in u.n. schools gives israel fuel for the artillery attacks. >> the secretary-general ban ki-moon has said when terrorists turn a u.n. facility into a war zone by storing weapons, all sorts of things we have seen, they have responsible for the casualties that ensue. >> no school that has been
4:07 pm
sheltering people or has been under the u.n.'s control have there been weapons found while under the u.n.'s control. so, again, there is no excuse to say that there are weapons in this schools when they are being used by shelters or under the u.n.'s control. >> the mine detection officers are on the ground in gaza to hunt for missiles on u.n. properties and eliminate any excuse for either side to draw the urch into the fight. richard roth, cnn, united nations. do i recall gold is a senior foreign policy adviser to benjamin netanyahu, a former ambassador to the u.n. thank you very much for being with us tonight, sir. the united nations of course condemning israel for attacking a school that they say there were a shelter. the u.n. says there were no weapons in that school. why did israel attack? >> well, first of all, we don't know who exactly attacked there. we cannot give an instant answer
4:08 pm
from an incident which just ocord today. what we have found in terms of a general trend, we have found there are three u.n. schools that involved weapons in them stored. i'm talking about rockets stored in these u.n. facilities in the last few days and weeks. therefore, we don't know if this is just another case or not. we do suspect that there was a fire fight in the area. we know that both sides were firing mortars, which of course are explosive shells, and yet whose mortar exactly hit, i can't say. this is a murky battle, and to make a call as to what's the reason for a particular explosion or particular tragic result is a little premature. >> i understand your point, there was a fight nearby, and that therefore it's not only unclear who may have struck the school, though i will say the u.n. said their preliminary
4:09 pm
analysis was that israel, but i understand you're saying it's not yet who it might have been. >> that's correct. >> but in the vicinity, why would israel believe that it's okay. that it's justifiable to fight near a shelter for 3,000 civilians, knowing that there would be the risk then that this facility could be struck? i mean, the u.n. says they gave the israeli defense forces the coordinates for this school to make sure they did not strike, 17 times. >> the general approach the israel has to be stated here. you know, what we're facing here in the gaza strip are rocket attacks against israeli cities and villages. those rocket attacks are coming from heavily populated areas that are placed -- the launch points, the storage areas are all placed in populated areas by hamas. let's try and separate the civilian population, as best we can from the military capability
4:10 pm
of hamas. so how do you go about making that separation if hamas is mixing them up? you start out, of course, with leaflets, you movie quickly to radio programs, you break into hamas' radio station with electronic methods. you reach people on their cell phones, you sent them text messages, their personal phones. you sent them all kinds of warnings to get out of an area. generally it works though hamas is telling the population, when the israelis talk to you, don't leave your home. >> here's my question on that. you're talking about an area of desperate poverty, incredibly densely populated. obviously leaflets as well as cell phone warnings, because a lot of people may not even have access to the technology. i see your point. but when you give the warning and say go, where are they suppose to do go do? the borders are closed. where are these supposed to go,
4:11 pm
dore? >> that is the right question. i asked from the army for a copy of these leaflets that are put in these areas. they're in arabic, they have a map of where the particular area is located in gaza, and then they have usually a red arrow pointing to where the population has to move. you have to indicate to people on the map in a radio broadcast, in a special text message that you might send them, or in a cell phone communication, you have to move from here to there. if you don't do that, you're putting them in an impossible position. >> so where's the there? that's my question. where is the there? the shelters, they u.n. shelters, they say israel struck them six times. is it just a red arrow over there, or is it a specific place that you're going to guarantee is safe? >> no, you mention a specific area that you have to make sure that there are no military operations there, and those people are okay. now, what happens in other parts of the gaza strip when you have an army operating against hamas?
4:12 pm
you know, you have exchanges of fire, you have all kind of things going on, but in general you're trying to protect the population. >> all right. thank you very much, dore gold. >> my pleasure. in out-front next, u.s. supplies israel with more ammunition. plus two americans exposed to ebola. and officials claiming that the crash site is surrounded by landmines. cnn went to the site to see if it's true. almon and energy. but the energy bp produces up here creates something else as well: jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america. you fifteen percent or more on huh, fiftcar insurance.uld save
4:13 pm
yeah, everybody knows that. well, did you know that playing cards with kenny rogers gets old pretty fast? ♪ you got to know when to hold'em. ♪ ♪ know when to fold 'em. ♪ know when to walk away. ♪ know when to run. ♪ you never count your money, ♪ when you're sitting at the ta...♪ what? you get it? i get the gist, yeah. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. take them on the way you always have. live healthy and take one a day men's 50+. a complete multivitamin with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. age? who cares.
4:14 pm
4:15 pm
4:16 pm
the united states is supplying the israel defense force with his more ammunition to continue fighting in gaza. the u.s. defense official insists the sale is a resupply. it's classified just how much israel is actually purchases, but the israelis have a billion american weapons stockpile at their disposal. the vast majority of israelis don't want the fighting to stop. that's an incredible fact. >> reporter: from the tel aviv seashore to the gaza border and beyond. the support is clear -- we're with you. hebrew signs say it with words, the people prove it with deeds. volunteers cook free meals, the sound of war booms behind them, in easy striking distance from gaza. this is who they're doing it for -- the soldiers on the battlefield. the message -- we are with you. two opinion polls done to measure support for israel's
4:17 pm
operation protective edge revealed that up to 95% of israeli jews are against a cease-fire. what they really want is hamas dealt with once and for all. >> hamas is a terrorism. and terrorism, they hurt every corner in the world. we just have to put -- take them out from gaza. >> reporter: rezy says he's happy with living side by side with palestinians, but hamas is a different thing. netanyahu's plan to destroy the tunnel system in gaza got a pat on the back from tel aviv. >> we have to continue. we have a lot of work to do there. otherwise they will find a way to come inside. you know all the tunnels, and i don't know the names, and we have to destroy everything. >> reporter: for this young lady it's deeply personal. she's to be married soon, about
4:18 pm
you are he fiance is a soldier on the front lines. he's in gaza somewhere, and we're afraid, she says. we shouldn't stop fighting, we shouldn't compromise. we sad down with a former head of mo sad, israel's top intelligence agency, about what it would take to fulfill the sentiment. >> it calls for conquering the gaza. >> reoccupation? >> reoccupation, no doubt. >> reporter: he says the price of that will be higher, costing lives and money. >> it means we will have to stay in gaza with relatively largely deployed forces for two, three, four years. >> reporter: the former spy chief initially did not support the position to put boots on the ground in gaza, but he admits something to us spy chiefs rarely do. >> now i understand that i was wrong, because only with this ground operation we can't discover those tunnels.
4:19 pm
>> reporter: political analyst marcus chef says the support is remarkable. >> i can't remember an administration which has had so much support from the israeli people. >> reporter: but the polls did not include palestinian with his israeli citizenships, sometimes referred to as israeli-arabs. those we spoke with were horrified and wanted the offensive to stop in gaza. we do know that peace rallies against the war, those were met with protesters who strongly disagreed and wanted israel to keep pounding gaza to get rid of hamas. erin? >> sara, thank you very much. joining mess is aaron david mill miller, and the president of the arab institute, is james zogby. they want hamas dealt with once and for all. they don't want this to keep coming back at them. what do you make of that number,
4:20 pm
9%? >> you would have to do a statistical breakdown of the polling to delve deeper, but i would explain three factors iron dome is working, it's minimized fatalities and casualties. that's number one. life is altered, but not fundamentally shut down. number two, the government has escalated its own ambitions and own demands and requirement for the end to the gaza crisis. so in part, the political and military establishment has created the immaterialage that if in fact the israelis keep going, guess what? you could end up with a victory. israeli casualties on the military side, though four times the number from both previous operations have been what the israelis would regard as tolerable. one more thing, erin -- i really believe after the so-called tie with his hezbollah in '06 and with the palestinians in '08 and '09, 2012, i think there's a psychological drive here to make
4:21 pm
sure this doesn't end up as a tie, to basically find a way to create a definitive comprehensive, i think it's frankly a bridge way too far, final, final ending to this. >> when you use those words, when you hear those, final ending, definitive, all the words that aaron just threw out there, as he said, a bridge too far, when you're talking about a victory in this conflict, i mean, we're talking thousands of years. is any such thing even possible? >> that's for me? >> yes, for you. >> it is impossible. that's part of the problem of why you get 9 numbers you get. people are living an illusion, almost a pathological illusion, and that is that it can be won. we've been down this road. i remember they were going to wipe out the plo, and ten years later they sat down and negotiated with them. israel has this idea that it can destroy its enemy. ultimately it needs to talk to its enemy. i think there are other reasons
4:22 pm
why you have these, number one is the rather shocking racist assumption that you poll just israeli jews and eliminate 20% of the population that's arab and don't even talk to them. the third thing i think is that if you listen to dore gold, your head starts spinning. he makes a statement early on saying we understand that there may have been a fire fight in that area. now s. i doubt that there was a fire fight in that area, but once he says it, he sows the seed of doubt and then creates the open for people to say, we didn't do anything wrong, it's all their fault. the nothing here that 1300 people have been killed accident register that they have paternity for. realty it's a sense that they people broad it on themselves. look, remember when mohammed, the young boy was murdered.
4:23 pm
the initial story in the israeli press leaked from the government may have been an honor killing, because he was reputed to have been gale. once that's out, then people absolve themselves from responsibility. that's what you've got, a society that lives with an illusion, that has overwhelming force and absolves itself from responsibility. that's not a healthy situation. >> what will the united states do about it? at the same time the u.s. sell, no, no wouldn't they tail stronger action? we know you have a billion dollar stockpile, but we're not get to let you have all of that. >> if you wanted to show support for israel, you would basically comply with israel's requests, whether it was routine, whether or not they were doing this on a contingency basis. at the same time, if you wanted to send a signal, and i guarantee the twitter-verse is
4:24 pm
burning with the notion that the u.s. basically is supplying israel with offensive weaponry or ammunition to kill more palestinians, so you begin to see what a dilemma the obama administration is in. woodie allen said 80% of success in life is showing up. he's wrong. 80% of showing up at the right time is -- kerry tried, but he came at a time when there was -- and frankly i don't think that urgency exists. i think if you sent kerry back, even with the support of the president, you would still end up with no cease-fire. >> certainly with poll numbers like we're seeing, there doesn't seem to be the desire on either side. what if there was more honesty here. i want to credit mike at orrin for not mincing words. he didn't say we're upset about the civilian deaths, we want to minimize them. he said, yes, there are going to
4:25 pm
be more that die. he wrote in "the washington post," israel must be permitted to crush hamas. by ending the cycle once and for all, thousands of innocent lives will be saved. is he right about that? >> that's such a shocking and horrific statement, such an immoral statement, i don't even know how to respond to it, but that's the pathology i'm talking b. the sense of absolving yourself from the moral consequences, the immoral consequences of the behavior. i want to make a comment about the u.s. supplying assistance at this point. the fact is that it makes us complicit in everything that's happens. that's how it's viewed in i arab world. when ronald reagan spoke sternly and backed it up with begin, he ended the lebanon war. when presidents have acted with pressure against israel, israel got the message. if we keep saying, even if it's tough talk in private, but then
4:26 pm
come back, we say, no, no, we really support israel, we're on your side and hand in glove with you, and then give more aid, the sense of impunity is so intense that israel says, we can do what we want, we're right, and no one is ever going to stop us. that creates the dynamic, and it hurts america in the middle east. >> thanks to boll. both. still out-front -- >> let's start with that unilateral dr. >> our john vause had to duck for cover after a series of attacks in gaza. and ukrainian officials say that russian separatists have planted land mines around the wreckage of flight 17. cnn went to the site to see if it's true. on capitol hill tonight, a vote to sue president obama. ♪ [music] jackie's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one.
4:27 pm
if you've had a heart attack be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. they keep us entertained. they keep us inspired. they keep us hopeful, and happy. keep them safe. the eight-passenger chevrolet traverse, with the highest possible overall vehicle score for safety. chevrolet. find new roads. remind me to tell her happy anniversary. [ cortana ] next time you talk to caroline, i'll remind you. [ siri ] oh no, i cannot do that. oh, and remind me to get roses when i'm near any flower shop. sure thing. remind you when you get to flower shop. i can't do that either. cortana, it's gonna be a great night. [ beep ] oh wow! thanks for the traffic alert. i better get going. now that is a smart phone. ♪ oh, wait
4:28 pm
♪ it's 'cause you make me smile ♪
4:29 pm
add vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance and get $100 off for every year of safe driving. we put members first, join the nation. nationwide is on your side.
4:30 pm
that's why i always choose the fastest intern.r slow. the fastest printer. the fastest lunch. turkey club. the fastest pencil sharpener. the fastest elevator. the fastest speed dial. the fastest office plant. so why wouldn't i choose the fastest wifi? i would. switch to comcast business internet and get the fastest wifi included. comcast business. built for business. breaking news now, we have new images of the aftermath following two attacks on a market in gaza. we warn you, the imaging you are disturbing. we do think the images are
4:31 pm
important to show. you can see racing to the scene after the first attack. then -- seconds later, you're now watching the second attack. the journalist shooting this video was injured after the strike. he sustained serious shrapnel injuries to both his feet and his torso. that should give you a sense of what happened to those around him. hi assistant then picked up the camera and continued to shoot.
4:32 pm
john vause is out front tonight live in gaza city. that video is hard to watch. when you think about the injuries that person sustained, those around who probably lost their lives, the assistant picked up the camera and kept filming. i've been on the scene of what's been happening there. what have you seen? >> reporter: hey, erin, i'm having a little trouble hearing you. let's talk about that video right now. that was the scene earlier today in an area not far from the gaza city, you may have heard of it, it's an area that's been repeatedly hit by israeli air strikes, as well as ground operation i guess for going on about 23, 24 days now as this operation continues. what that video shows is what many witnesses have told us. there were a number of strikes carried owl by israel in fairly quick succession. after the first strike, we're told by the witnesses that residents and ambulance crews
4:33 pm
rushed to the area, surrounded by warehouses and homes as well as shops. they came out to help the wounded try to evacuate them, and then as we've seen, with that very graphic video, which is very graphic. i'm sure we haven't shown the worst of it, there were two more strikes. what we have seen with that vid video, it has been broadcast on hamas television, and it has been graphic. it shows victims who have lost limbs, others who are covered in blood who are screaming for help. it also shows dead bodies, which have just been blown apart. hamas officials say the death toll from that market attack stands at at least 17, more than 200 were wounded. we've also been told by hamas officials one reason why that marketplace was so crowded is because they thought this four-hour humanitarian cease-fire which israel unilaterally announced was still
4:34 pm
in place. two and a half hours into that, there was pretty much no warning that israel decided it would respond to the repeated hamas rocket fire. they warned they would, but they didn't say when they were going to do it. >> john, thank you very much. ambassador, thank you for taking the time. i want to start with this horrible video coming in of the attack on the market. as our reporter just pointed out israel authorized a four-hour humanitarian window it lasted about 2 1/2 hour. they say hamas fired 26 rockets during that time. during the cease-fire that the gaza citizens expected, they were in this market, according to the idf, hamas fired so they fired back. as a result you have a horrific act. what is being done to get hamas to stop firing the rockets? >> this is is a twist of the facts, erin. israel has been lying about all
4:35 pm
these attacks on our schools. today the united nations verified that the shells that hit a school yesterday and killed 17, 19 palestinians, and wounded scores of others with israeli shells. israel has a habit of lying. its officials lie. its spokespeople lie, and they believe their lies. i mean, i was listening to this horrible video. to be honest this is the first time i hear the audio, to one victim saying i lost my legs, i lost my legs. you want to tell me they targeted mill tajts and fighters? the world has to wake up. the united states has to wake up and urge israel to stop this carnage. it is shameful that the united states is resupplying ammunition to a country that is committing right now war crimes. >> ambassador, let me ask you
4:36 pm
though, something, this is very important at the heart of this. the united nations as you say, with the attack today on the shelter, they did say they thought it was an israeli shell. but the u.n. has also said that they have found rockets being stored in three schools in gaza how is it those rockets are getting into schools if hamas is not trying to get israel to fire on schools? >> well, that is a violation of the united states sanctity we support the united nations position -- but for god's sake does it justify that israel target a shelter of 3,000 innocent civilians who fled the campaign of aggression against innocent people? does this justify amnesty international said last week that firing from civil yang operations, even in hamas was firing from civilian population, to believe israeli allegation,
4:37 pm
which i don't believe at all, if they fired from civilian population, it does not justify israel to fire back deliberately to target civilian -- innocent civilians. >> isn't it true, at least would you acknowledge that if hamas is storing weapons in civilian structures like schools, that hamas knows that means they will likely be attacked. they know they are putting civilian lives at risk. >> israel says they fired. there's a big difference between using the properties, which we don't agree with, and firing from these properties. they have not -- israel did not prove in one single incident so far that after they targeted -- >> you think storing them is okay? >> i'm not say it's okay. why are you trying to put words in my mouth. >> you're saying there's a difference between fire -- i'm trying to understand. >> i said we agree with the united nations position.
4:38 pm
you are trying to exonerate israel from the -- >> no, i'm not trying to do that sir. i'm trying to get exactly where you are -- >> this is what the media is trying to do. they are listening to all these lies that are coming from israeli spokespeople, the palestinian civilians are being slaughters by u.s.-made weapons. the united states government is resupplying them with more ammunition. you have americans serving in the israeli army who are fighting palestinians and kill palestinians. 750 u.s./israeli citizens are serving in the israeli army. isn't that against the american law? >> ambassador, i would say if you watched my interview with dore gold, who is a adviser to right knew, if you had watched earlier in the program. but i really do just wand to understand exactly what you're coming from.
4:39 pm
>> the israel government says all this comes back to the tunnels, ambassador, that these tunnels are being built by hamas to go into civilian areas, and that this threatens israelis security. they say once the tunnels are destroyed, they'll stop fighting. would you support that? >> first of all i represent the plo, not the palestinian authority. secondly, the issue -- the score issue is not the tunnels, erin. the israelis started this war to stop launching rockets from israel. then they switched the objective to destroying the tunnels. then they want now to disarm gaza. the issue here is not the stuns. the issue here is a military occupation, a military blockade of 1.8 million palestinians who are living in an open-air jail. it's the 47-year-old military occupation of the palestinian people.
4:40 pm
it's israel's refusal to allow the palestinians to live in dignity and freedom. let me say that clearly -- as long as the palestinian people don't live in peace and security, israel will not live in peace and security. it's a very simple equation. live and let live. israel wants to live and kill the palestinians. they don't want to see an independent palestinian state. they want to continue their oppression against the palestinian people. >> ambassador, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank very much. still out-front is the wreckage of malaysian flight 17 surroundedly land mines. is it we are live on the scene to uncover whether it's true or not. the world ebola virus ever hits closer to the united states. two americans in isolation after coming into contact with an infected person who later died. so factors like diet can negatively impact good bacteria? even if you're healthy and active. phillips digestive health support is a duo-probiotic that helps supplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract. i'm doubly impressed!
4:41 pm
phillips' digestive health. a daily probiotic. i never know what kind theof adventure awaits. that the days are longer, and the breeze feels a little sweeter. and, thanks to volvo, i'll pay nothing for repairs or maintenance for 5 years, nothing. they even cover my first month's payment. so, i'll be happy wherever the summer takes me. the wonder of summer event. the 2015 volvo s60 sedan with complimentary first month's payment. starting at $319 a month. [ male announcer ] over time, you've come to realize... [ starter ] ready! [ starting gun goes off ] [ male announcer ] it's less of a race... yeah! [ male announcer ] and more of a journey. keep going strong. and as you look for a medicare supplement insurance plan... expect the same kind of commitment you demand of yourself. aarp medicare supplement insurance plans insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company.
4:42 pm
go long.
4:43 pm
4:44 pm
tonight allegations the road to the wreckage of flight 17 has actually been lined with land mines, according to ukrainian officials t. rebels have placed land mines, making it impossible to collect evidence and the
4:45 pm
remains of those left behind. it is now 13 days since flight 17 was shot from the sky. today nick paton-walsh made the trip. how different was it to get there, and what did you see? >> reporter: comparatively easy for us. how it would been for the osc and inspection inspection to get to the site. we're one car, they're 10 to 20. when we were there, we didn't see much in the way of land mines. of course, this is a war zone, so there will be a lot of munitions in that particular area, but the feeling you get when you're there is separatists who were comparatively welcoming to us to get through aren't in particular a big number. they're nowhere to be seen at the crash site itself. i think the feeling people get when they hear the ukrainian government talk that way is they
4:46 pm
half are trying to suggest that retaking the area is the solution to gain access. we heard from the dutch that they don't believe they're going to get near it in the days ahead. certainly the violence swirling around that eerily quiet area continued all day. we saw nothing but black smoke around us. the site, thoughs extraordinarily somber, still wreckage there, of course, people's possessions lying among the sunflowers, and sadly still the 12 to 13 days on, the stench of decay, you can still smell from some of the bodies that must still be around the area there. >> nick, thank you. and the debris as you were looking at holds the key to exactly what happened 33,000 feet above ukraine. answers that families desperately need and deserve. as our david mattingly found out, though, with each passing days, inspector dos risk losing the crucial pieces of evidence.
4:47 pm
>> reporter: a fireball caught on camera. a devastating loss of life, but to those trained to investigate air crashes, the tragedy doesn't stop there. accusations of looting and possibly contaminating important evidence is disturbing. when you first saw that, what was your reaction? >> the first i want was unrepeatable on tv. after that, i was horrified. >> william walldock is a crash investigator and director of the accident investigation lab at embry riddle aeronaughtible university. he tells me why intelligence points to a missile strike in the crash, investigator still need unaltered physical evidence to find the smoking gun. evidence you can't get from the black boxes. you still need the crash site. >> i'm a firm believer that you follow the physical evident. >> reporter: that's exactly what investigators did in 1996, in the case of twa-800, when it was suspected that a missile may
4:48 pm
have brought the plane down. it wasn't until the wreckage was recovered and examined that it was determined there was no such evidence of an attack. he says a physical examination is needed on mh-17 wreckage to confirm what many suspect is evidence of a missile strike in these photos. >> have you ever seen a stop sign that somebody fired a shotgun at? that's what you sigh. you see the large number of penetration holes that are going from the outside in. >> reporter: would it be possible to cover up that kind of evidence? >> hard, but if you have enough efforts and manpower. >> reporter: and enough time. >> and enough time. >> reporter: proceedings the crash site is even nor critical when a plane is crashed deliberately. at shanksville, pennsylvania, the fbi noted the location of the smallest pieces of debris. more than ten days after the crash of mh-17, there's no guarantee that even large pieces would be left untouched.
4:49 pm
let's say someone would take the away with a forklift, could you get to the bottom of this? >> not, because that's how easy it breaks. >> reporter: when ever dent, crack, fragment could be a klee. even under the best of circumstances, in an investigation like this, if there was a missile strike, it can't tell us who pulled the trigger. there are even greater concerns of what questions might go unanswered if critical pieces of evidence disappear. waldock now worries what the latest rebel clashes might do if the crash site is caught in the crossfire. >> depending on the size of the bomb, you may destroy everything we've got. >> and with it any chance of definitively directing blame for the deaths of 298 people. david mattingly, cnn, prescott, arizona. out-front next, a deadlys ebola outbreak has gotten worse.
4:50 pm
two americans in isolation. the house approved a resolution to sue the president of the united states ugh. heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and are proven to taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm. amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief. when a pro at any 2014 pga tour event sinks a hole-in-one, quicken loans could pay your mortgage for an entire year.
4:51 pm
truly amazing! enter today at and for many, it's a struggle to keep your a1c down. so imagine, what if there was a new class of medicine that works differently to lower blood sugar? imagine, loving your numbers. introducing once-daily invokana®. it's the first of a new kind of prescription medicine that's used along with diet and exercise to lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. invokana® is a once-daily pill that works around the clock to help lower a1c. here's how: the kidneys allow sugar to be absorbed back into the body. invokana® reduces the amount of sugar allowed back in, and
4:52 pm
sends some sugar out through the process of urination. and while it's not for weight loss, it may help you lose some weight. invokana® can cause important side effects, including dehydration, which may cause some people to have loss of body water and salt. this may also cause you to feel dizzy, faint, lightheaded, or weak especially when you stand up. other side effects may include kidney problems, genital yeast infections, urinary tract infections, changes in urination, high potassium in the blood, or increases in cholesterol. do not take invokana® if you have severe kidney problems or are on dialysis or if allergic to invokana® or its ingredients. symptoms of allergic reaction may include rash, swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing. if you experience any of these symptoms, stop taking invokana® and call your doctor right away or go to the nearest hospital. tell your doctor about any medical conditions, medications you are taking, and if you have kidney or liver problems.
4:53 pm
using invokana® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase risk of low blood sugar. it's time. lower your blood sugar with invokana®. imagine loving your numbers. ask your doctor about invokana®. add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance... ...and we'll replace destroyed or stolen items with brand-new versions. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪
4:54 pm
breaking news, republican led house threatened to sue president obama and says he abused his power by not going through congress to make laws. dana bash is the chief correspondent and the vote 225-201, shockingly, not a single democrat voted for. >> that's right. i know you say that with sarcasm but democrats wanting to scene a message back home crossed bpart lines, that didn't happen. you have republicans saying this isn't about the house gop versus barack obama. it's the legislative branch versus the executive branch trying to stop a president from over reaching, from going too far and this specific issue, it's about changing the health care law without congressional approval, but this is undeniably political and erin, you know this is three months before the election and presidential over reach is a huge motivating
4:55 pm
factor and mid material elections are about getting the core base to the polls. >> republicans aren't the only ones, democrats will capitalize on what they see as politics. >> they already are capitalizing it and brazen about it, unapologetic about it. steve israel, the democratic congressman in charge of electing democrats to the house in november made it perfectly clear they are sending out fundraising letters. we see it in the inbox warning democratic donors, they have to give big. they are trying to impeach the president. >> thank you very much. next, two more americans exposed to the ebola virus. thank ythank you for defendiyour sacrifice. and thank you for your bravery. thank you colonel. thank you daddy. military families are uniquely thankful for many things,
4:56 pm
the legacy of usaa auto insurance can be one of them. if you're a current or former military member or their family, get an auto insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. but with med-care, i don't have to! waiting to get my diabetic supplies is such a hassle . they deliver everything i need right to my door! with free shipping! plus, med-care takes private policies, medicaid, even my medicare! now we have the time to do the things we love. med-care. we deliver a better life.
4:57 pm
4:58 pm
4:59 pm
two more americans have been exposed to the deadly ebola virus. they are peace corps volunteers that came in contact with someone who later died from the virus. they are being held in isolation. the peace corps is not taking chances and pulling volunteers out of ebola infected countries. the outbreak has gotten so bad in liberia, the president ordinary eared all schools to close. an update on the americans. kenneth brantly and nancy, both of them have shown slight
5:00 pm
improve the. it's the next five to six days that will determine if they are able to be apong the so few survivors of the virus. thanks so much for joining us. a special two-hour edition of a special two-hour edition of "ac 360" starts now. -- captions by vitac -- good everything, -- good evening. there are too many items to count, hamas rejecting a seize fire and israel asking for more u.s. ammunition. the u.n. blaming israel for the carnage at a school that was a known shelter known by both sides for thousands of displaced people. the white house today expressing concern for the loss of civilian life, the house today voting to condemn hamas for storing weapons in schools in gaza but no evidence there was any at this particular school and deeply disturbing images of